Life After Death & Beyond | James Van Praagh | Kellee White

BETRAYAL after DEATH: Making Peace With the Dead | James Van Praagh

• James Van Praagh • Season 1 • Episode 12

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Holding onto transgressions from someone who has passed? This is how to deal with loss and make peace with betrayal even after death…
✅ Enroll in my Spiritual Healing Certification while it's 33% Off! 👉 https://bit.ly/4f8MTYh

Is your heart still clinging onto a grudge from someone who has passed? Is there a way to move on and truly forgive even when they’re not here with us on earth? The answer is yes! Join us as we sit down with author, Jessica Waite, as she shares what she learned about her husband after his passing. Take her lessons with you to practice making peace with the dead and healing after loss - finally lift the burden off your shoulders and out of your heart!

Jessica Waite harnesses the healing potential of storytelling to help others find their way back to joy and connection. Jessica is the creator of endlesstories.love - a website for bereaved people to keep memories alive. Her memoir “The Widow’s Guide to Dead Bastards” comes out July 30th 2024!

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More About James:

James Van Praagh is hailed worldwide as a pioneer of the mediumship movement and is considered one of the most widely recognized and accurate spiritual mediums working today.

A “survival evidence medium,” he provides evidential proof of life after death through highly detailed messages from the spiritual realm. He is recognized annually on Watkins List of the 100 Most Spiritually Influential Living People – a prestigious list of spiritual teachers, activists, authors, and thinkers.

For over three decades, Van Praagh’s messages have brought comfort and peace to millions. He has worked with international heads of state, religious world leaders, and celebrities including Cher, Goldie Hawn, Shirley Maclaine, Ellen DeGeneres, Joan Rivers, Katie Couric, Loretta Lynn, Chelsea Handler, Jennifer Love Hewitt, Wesley Snipes, and so many more. 

The #1 New York Times best-selling author of over a dozen international best-sellers, including his debut, Talking to Heaven, Van Praagh’s book titles include: Talking To Heaven, Reaching to Heaven, Healing Grief, Heaven and Earth, Looking Beyond, Meditations, Ghosts Among Us, Unfinished Business, Growing Up In Heaven, Adventures of the Soul, How to Heal a Grieving Heart, and The Power of Love.

Throughout his career, James Van Praagh has appeared on countless national radio and television shows including The Oprah Winfrey Show, Larry King Live, Dr. Phil, 48 Hours, The View, The Joy Behar Show, Chelsea Lately, Coast to Coast AM, and many more. 
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About Kellee White:

Kellee White is a Spiritual Medium and a licensed Psychotherapist practicing with celebrities, corporate executives, entrepreneurs, politicians as well as individuals, couples and families. Her specialties involve her work with trauma, loss, grief counseling, changes, transitions, fear of death and life purpose. A major goal of Kellee’s work is to heal the soul, which often includes messages from loved ones who have passed on to the other side. Kellee uses many lenses in her sessions for viewing the soul that include astrology, numerology and psychic ability. A session with Kellee might well be the most exciting, informative, healing hour of your life!

Kellee's website: http://www.kelleewhite.com
Kellee's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SpiritualMediumKelleeWhite
Kellee's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/spiritualmediumkelleewhite/
3 Faces of Trauma Workshop: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/882099141277?aff=oddtdtcreator
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#dealingwithloss #death #jamesvanpraagh

James Van Praagh:

Hello. Hello everybody. Welcome beyond, Hello Kelly, hi

Kellee White:

James, hi everybody.

James Van Praagh:

We're getting a good opening. The working on the opening right now. So how are you, Kelly,

Kellee White:

oh, I'm just great. How are you doing? Good?

James Van Praagh:

We're going to see each other a couple of days in Chicago.

Kellee White:

Can't wait. We're

James Van Praagh:

going to do an event in Chicago together, everyone. So it's Thursday night. That'll be a lot that is. So that's just getting me through these times.

Kellee White:

That's right. Oh,

James Van Praagh:

we're going to positive things. You know, when things seem crazy. Yes, crazy. And tonight's show is, it's really, really, really, an interesting, interesting show. And Kelly has a therapist. First of all, we have a guest in Jessica Waite, and she wrote a book, The widow's guide to dead bastards, which I think is a great title. I predict the best seller, yeah, and it's best seller already in Canada, which was great. And it's all about betrayal. And I know Kelly Azu and myself, we deal with a lot of it. You from a therapist, and it's mediumistic point of you, yes, I've had

Kellee White:

many clients that have had this experience of being betrayed. I think everybody that listens to the show tonight will have either had an experience of betrayal, because when you come to earth, you have betrayal or major or you'll have, you'll know somebody who's had a situation similar, they've maybe not the whole story, but certainly big parts of this. But this is such a unique, fabulous, interesting story. I could not put this story down. James, I couldn't put it down. I read it word for word.

James Van Praagh:

And I know, for everybody that you know, when they pass over and they come back from the spirit world, they will often talk about and one of the hardest things would pass over. Of course, we have a life review, and we become aware of the things we did we didn't do, but we become aware of how you treated someone else, how they felt. You take on how they felt 10 times 20, times 30 times stronger than originally it happened. You feel that, and that's when it's like and you can't do anything about it. So many times. You know, we've talked about purgatory, the religious, I think that could be that world, that space, that realm where you're stuck with your what you did or didn't do, and many times it's resentment, it's betrayal, it's dishonesty and and spirit. People don't have a chance to come back and say, I'm sorry very often, and that's where we come in. Mediums come in. But this is one of the first ones, which is really great about the spirit that that Jessica found out afterwards, about the betrayal

Kellee White:

and well. And what I find so fascinating about this story is that her ability to write it, her ability to tell the story of what happened to her is extraordinary. And she's a first time writer. So, free writer, Junior writer, first time writer, and it's beautifully written, and it will capture your attention. So let me read a little bit about this for you, everybody so and then we'll bring her on. Jessica wait is a debut author. In fact, the Washington Post recommended this as a July read. Great. It's a widow's life is turned upside, or, I'm sorry, a widow's life is turned upside when she uncovers the truth about her late husband in this lyrical, witty and deeply moving memoir of tragedy and betrayal. In the midst of mourning her husband's sudden death, writer Jessica Waite discovered Shocking Secrets that undermined everything she knew about the man she'd loved and trusted, from uncovered affairs to drug use and a pornography addiction, Waite was overwhelmed reconciling this devastating information with her new reality as a widowed single mother. Then, to further complicate matters, strange and inexplicable coincidences forced her to consider whether her husband was reaching back from beyond the grave with her signature candor and unflinching honesty, weight details her tumultuous love story and the pain of adjusting to the new normal she built for herself and her son a riveting, difficult and surprisingly beautiful story. The widow's guide to dead bastards is also a lyrical exploration of grief, mental health, single parenthood and betrayal, that demonstrates that the most moving love stories aren't perfect, they're flawed and poignantly real. Please welcome Jessica white, Hi, Jessica, hi,

Jessica Waite:

thank you. So much. What a joy to be here. Oh

Kellee White:

my gosh, Bravo for being so brave.

James Van Praagh:

Yeah, that took a lot, and really kudos to do this was when you wrote this book. Was it healing for you to write the book?

Jessica Waite:

Like, yes, absolutely. So that was just the initial goal to catharsis, healing, the therapy of writing and journaling. I'm sure, Kelly, you probably tell but people that you see how how effective that can be, and never really any intention to publish it, until once it got out of my head and onto the page, and I started to have some distance and started to realize, oh, this is a little bit of a unusual story, just the way that the events laid out, and maybe something that could be helpful for other people. Because I think even though things stack up in a strange way, it's sort of like you were saying Kelly at the beginning, like everyone has been betrayed. Everyone you know wonders what happens when we die. Everyone could lose somebody unexpectedly or Expectedly, and just have so many questions. So yeah, well, what

Kellee White:

makes this story so compelling to me is that it's a cautionary tale. Mm, on a lot of levels. I mean, it really does, I would think help people look at red flags, look at people's behavior. Look at what you're doing, not having fear, and the fact that you were able to write this in such a beautiful way to tell the story will help so many people that have had lost in betrayal, which is, I've had many clients that have had parts of your story, and it's really hard for them when they have passed over. What do you do with the rage and the anger and the grief? Because it becomes complicated grief at this point,

James Van Praagh:

and what and answer that for us. Jessica, what do you do with that?

Jessica Waite:

Yeah, that's that was the question that I sort of had in my heart. What am I going to do? Because I knew that if I did nothing like if I just I could have just kept muscling through my days and just try to go back to, you know, a bit of the life that I had before, but my heart was completely shut down. And if I had done that, it would have led me to a life of like, bitterness and resentment. And I knew that I couldn't go on that way. And so I had to try something else. And so that's why I ended up, you know, just opening my mind a little bit to things that I might not have been been willing to look at before, in terms of questions and healing modalities, and

James Van Praagh:

before you go on, because if someone to ask you, this just popped in my head. You think your husband helped you write the book. Do

Jessica Waite:

I think that? Yes, I do. Yes, I do. I

James Van Praagh:

know that. I just know that you felt him uncertain time you felt that we were writing right? Yeah, yes,

Jessica Waite:

yes. And I even this, this is I tell this in the story. But one of the things that happened to even allow me to make these discoveries was that I guessed his password. And so, you know, I it kind of, I kind of skim over it as I'm telling the story, but it's like, I guess is the password that he used to use when, you know, things were better, and I knew when he was sharing his password with me. And then I, on the second try, I guessed it, and it opened it up. And that's how I started to, like, uncover some

Kellee White:

of so when I read that in your story, I actually had to reread it, and I'll tell you why it was so unusual. Yeah, it was so unusual that that clearly, spirit opened that up without a doubt.

Jessica Waite:

Yeah, yeah. And that so that, that, to me, is the first clue of Sean wanting to help. And then there's been so many ways that he has shown up that I don't write about a lot of these in the book. But one of the things is like I was as I was I had to learn, I had to build up the chops to be a writer, because I didn't want to just to be my journal. I wanted it to be something that people would want to read. And so I went to my very first writing workshop, and there was someone there who was also widowed, and I guess in between the sessions, she told her her new husband about me. And as this when the thing was over, I was about to pull away. I was in my car, and then suddenly someone knocked on my window, my window, and I rolled the window down, and it was this woman's husband, and he was a shaman, and he gave me an eagle feather, which Kelly's got a big expression photography is because Eagles like kept showing up for me, and so, so and then, like a feather is also like a quill, right? So I felt like it meant, like it's permission to tell the story. That's how, that's the meaning that I swear,

Kellee White:

and let's not, let's tell the audience how you came to James. And to me, was through a dear friend that James has always called mama Eagle.

James Van Praagh:

And she calls me eaglet, the

Jessica Waite:

baby Eagle. Oh, wow, wow. That yeah, when

James Van Praagh:

you felt when you started writing. It. And because I know that when we write books, when we do any inspirational work, creating works, the spirit world works with us, that intelligence. And did you feel him, you know, working with you, but and if you did feel him coming in your experiences with him, when you had this experience, did you feel his energy? And if you did feel his energy. Did it feel a little different?

Jessica Waite:

So at first, when the thing, the first things that started to come, they were so overwhelming to me, and I was still in my state of anger with him that I cuz was having a hard time because, like, you know, my light bulbs were all burning out. My TV and stereo were coming on by themselves, and I was and I was so mad at him, because I had found these betrayals, and was still really raging. And so I was like, What are you haunting us now? And if you are, get out. I wasn't receptive to any kind of messaging from him. But then there were, there's this, you know, I I took some action to kind of discharge my anger on Christmas Eve, the first Christmas Eve, which was about six months after, or six weeks after he had passed away. And then on the next morning, was Christmas morning, I went for a walk in a place that we always used to go. And it was an extremely cold day, like in Fahrenheit, I'm not very good at the conversion by things like minus 31 Fahrenheit, like, That's so cold that your eyelashes would freeze, and you can't and and as I was walking down this path, I saw an eagle, which there's, I had never seen an eagle there. And eagles are not usually in this part of the world at this time of year. And so it was, and that so to this is to answer your question, James, like, what I felt like? I felt a very strong connection to Sean because he took a picture of every eagle that he ever saw. Oh, God. And so I, so I took my gloves off in the freezing cold to try to take a picture of that fry. Wow, yeah, yeah. And so, so So that's the kind of so that was the first time that my heart sort of softened, and I started to think, like, okay, you know, maybe this is him, and maybe, yeah, maybe he's trying to kind of help clean up the mess that that got left behind, if

James Van Praagh:

that, and does that push you on to go see A medium or, or,

Jessica Waite:

yeah, yeah, not, not right away, because I was kind of toggling between, but, but I did eventually go to see a medium, and

James Van Praagh:

you're mentioning it wasn't, wasn't a good experience, yeah,

Jessica Waite:

it wasn't a great experience. Because I had, I think, a couple of things. I think I was trying to make her prove it to me. So I don't think I was a very receptive or good, easy to work with client. But also, the things that she was saying felt so General, General and so textbook to what like, if there's such a thing as a typical widow who, you know, didn't find out all these horrible secrets. So she would say, like, I see a mantle, or I see a ring, you know, like, those kinds of things. And I was like, Well, you know, yeah, but you do see me, like, taking my ring and throwing it across the room, because that's what I with the ring and so, so anyway, it was I left feeling really disappointed and kind of mad at myself for trying to believe and yeah, so I Yeah. So I would love to know what, what

James Van Praagh:

you think, Jessica, when is your birthday? My

Jessica Waite:

birthday, September 16. Oh, so you're like,

Kellee White:

we are birthdays right before my birthday. That's an interesting time. That would make you extremely psychic. Honey, very psychic. And also it means, it actually means the healer. So you really this story. In my belief system, you and Sean had arranged a lot of work on the other side to have this experience. And I think it's to help 1000s and 1000s, if not millions, of people with this deep story. It's a big story. It's up there with, Eat, Pray, Love with a twist,

Jessica Waite:

yeah, yeah. And

James Van Praagh:

what do you think you learned from it? Jessica,

Jessica Waite:

well, in terms of, so, there's a couple big learnings, but in in terms of what I was trying to explore with writing the book, it was a question like, Can relationships heal across the veil of death? And I'm sure for you, that's an obvious answer, but for me, it wasn't obvious. And I what I feel like. It feels to me like, Yes, we did, and that we had this a lot that was unresolved, but that we were able to sort of figure it out and clean things up together, and that the awareness that that kind of thing might be possible, it just feels so huge. You know, it feels so huge that, and I'm sure that's probably why people come to talk to you when there's something unresolved and they want to have a sense of peace, or some kind of feeling of. Solution,

James Van Praagh:

and when you came to the betrayal the other How did that? How were you healed? Did you all right? I'm going to say it. Did you have to come to a place of forgiveness? Yeah, so. And have you yet, or have is it still taking time?

Jessica Waite:

It's I feel like I have, and I also feel i i guess I'm hedging a little bit because part of me thinks like no one ever has to forgive anyone, and so I don't want anyone to feel like I'm telling them like you You must forgive someone who hurt you. But it almost feels like we got to a place where I could deeply understand this person, and so I in a place of compassion, where it didn't feel like I needed to forgive. It felt like a more like an awareness, and yeah, an awareness of like a common understanding, and that that just kind of melted away the barrier that was between us, and it was like nothing. There was nothing to forgive. Is sort of what it felt like.

Kellee White:

Was it possible? Because you talked about his mental illness, yeah, you talked about with bipolar, and you talked about with drug addiction, and in bipolar, when there's mania, and he had bipolar one, I'm assuming, yeah,

Jessica Waite:

I think that if he he was never diagnosed. And so I pieced this together from my own, you know, understanding plus family history that it would have been mixed states bipolar, which I didn't even know was a diagnosis at the time, yeah, and so that he had these very rapid cycles. If he had had that long cycle that I understood from my own family history, I would have been sure that like, he needed treatment. But because he was cycling so fast, it just seemed like he had a very short fuse, you know, and that he was and I thought he was managing well, because off the top, Kelly, when he said, it's a cautionary tale, I think it is in the sense of, like, how well can you ever really know someone? But also for Sean, because he was such a high achiever, and he was so determined, and he worked so hard, and he was about to take over as CEO of a corporation a month before he died. And so it's just that feeling like I feel like, in a lot of ways, it's a cautionary tale, too, to somebody who's driven like that and who is not addressing, you know, like he has his own,

Kellee White:

his own mental issues, on mental needs. Because I

James Van Praagh:

remember, it's his escapism, to succeed and to work, to work.

Kellee White:

It would have been an escapism, but it was also, I mean, he would be up for three or four days, and he would need and then he would just keep going. I mean, that's a real rapid cycler. That's a a tough diagnosis.

Jessica Waite:

Capricorn, uh, His birthday was November 16. Oh,

James Van Praagh:

Scorpio. Scorpio, yeah, okay, wow. And Scorpio the mediumistic sign, so no surprise, it comes back to you all the time. Yeah. Oh, interesting,

Kellee White:

wow. I loved what you said about therapy. And I thought this was Kelly.

James Van Praagh:

If you don't mind Kelly, I just want to find a lot of people here. Your story when you first met him, and you know, when you first met him, what did you think? How was he and when did you first notice there were some changes he was? You don't mind me going back? Yeah, no,

Jessica Waite:

for sure. Yeah. We met when we were both English teachers in Japan, back in the 90s. And so we worked for the same company in different cities and and we just we were fast friends. He was so funny, delightful, very charismatic and charming and and he was, in a lot of ways, a really stand up guy. And so how I ended up falling in love with him is because he always was almost like a like he just always was in my corner and always had my back, and I just thought this is someone that I could build a life with, and we built an amazing life like that's the strange thing is that he almost seemed to like when I see what he was going through and what he was hiding. It's almost superhuman, to be able to, like, on one side, be so high functioning and do all of these things, and on the other side have, like, just the darkest secrets and this kind of tortured, addictive way of of living that he was hiding from everyone, not not only

James Van Praagh:

and how far into the marriage Did you know that something was different? Well,

Jessica Waite:

he I would say that it was just sort of gradual. So he always had mood swings. And I knew that he, you know, I knew that he that we both had some mental health stuff in the family, and he had those tendencies, but, but it wasn't until probably the last three ish years that things were really magnified. And there was just a series of his mom passing. He we moved we had been living in Singapore. We moved back to Calgary. He got let go from his job. There was just, like, a bunch of major, major transitions, and that he was not doing well, I knew that. And so, yeah, but, but looking back, I can see he was always the same person. Sudden, you know, like, I think that I could have probably seen things a little sooner if I'd known what I was looking for. So, yeah,

James Van Praagh:

first thing you found that betrayal wise, Was it, was it the other woman? Was it the drugs? Was it the what was the first it

Jessica Waite:

was, it was the it was drugs, and it was, and it wasn't, like, it wasn't on, like, a like, it was just marijuana at that time, but it was so much, and he had lied about because it was legal. He was it's a long story. Don't need to go into all the details, but it was legal in Colorado, and he had been working down there. And so I asked him, Have you tried legal marijuana? And he said, No. And then when I opened his wallet, I found this frequent mud buyer card that had seven out of tents punched out of it, and he'd barely been down there. And I'm like, well, ha, so it was, and then, yeah, and it was just that little thing. And then, but that was the tip of the iceberg. And then I found out, you know, I think there was, you know, this massive cache of pornography. There were other women. There was like he was hiding debt and spent, he had spent so much money, and so there, yeah, there was a lot

Kellee White:

to kind of, I love when you went after one of the women, tell us, tell us about that. It was, it was really extraordinary, because sometimes people will not do that, and some people will just do that, I love you. I love Yeah,

Jessica Waite:

I sort of, I kind of skirted both of that because I had the impulse to go after her right away. But I checked myself and waited until there was another bit of time passed so so that I, I, yeah, I don't want to go into all the detail, but I just, I didn't want to hurt her husband or children, but I wanted her to be accountable for what I felt that she had done, and I wanted her to take some responsibility. And so So I, I, yeah, I concocted a revenge plan to unleash on her on Christmas Eve and and so I did it. And the the kind of meanness in it was the timing that it was on Christmas Eve, but that was in the in the end, you know, as much as it doesn't make me look the best, and I'm not sure revenge is like always the the best impulse to follow it the next day was when I had that, that you saw the Eagles. And so it did feel at some way, like, discharging the anger was good for me, like, and I just like, let go of some of the things that weren't mine. I don't know what you make of that when you hear it, but yeah, yeah,

Kellee White:

oh. I thought it was brilliant. I thought the all of it was actually how what had Did you ever experience Sean in your dreams,

Jessica Waite:

I would have a recurring dream, and basically it was like this, he would come home with his suitcase from a trip because he tried. He traveled on business a lot. He'd walk in the door. I would meet him like so happily. And then as soon as I looked in his eyes, I remembered what he did, and I said, get out and and that happened over and over and over and so he could he there was no reconciliation happening in the dream world for us. And it's funny because later on, I did go and see another medium, and she told me, like, she she ended up, like, being bang on about everything. And she said, he's trying to come through your dreams, but he can't get through so he's flashing your lights and and so, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Kellee White:

oh my gosh, wow. So, and you had other experiences with healers? I think, yeah. So

Jessica Waite:

this is another thing that didn't used to happen. I was I was having a lot of physical pain, like back pain especially, and so I was going to see a massage therapist. And this happened three different times, that someone who was doing bodywork, giving me massage, would get some kind of vision or intuitive hit, and then tell me about it. And so, like, yeah, and that didn't like, that never used to happen. And then it happened with three different people, and a couple of them told me that I was going to write a book. And like, part of the way through, I was already writing a book, and they told me that I would, which was another bit of data that I put into my data set, that yeah, that I was on the right track. And the other thing was that my perceptions were sort of altered in a way that it felt like books were guiding me, like books like in the library, I would see them like more clearly, like one more than the other, and then that one would have direct relevance to my life, and so, so it just kind of felt like a breadcrumb trail, unfolding of, you know what, what the next steps would be. It was

Kellee White:

a spiritual awakening, yeah,

James Van Praagh:

and you're a teacher. You're a healer and teacher. So you're teaching people with this healing. And did you feel different, Jessica, after you wrote the book, and how would you feel different if you did about the relationship about yourself or about the world,

Jessica Waite:

I feel I mostly still feel like myself, but I know that there has to be something different about me, because I'm standing up and putting a book onto the world where I'm a very private person, like I would never normally talk about any of the private things in my life. And so that is a big change. And then the other big change is I was just talking with someone about unconditional love, and what I used to think what that meant was just that somehow you were supposed to just love people, no matter what they did and no matter how they conflicted with your values and morals. It's just like love them unconditionally, love and I didn't know really how people got there. I thought, Oh, this is why it's only saints and angels who can love this way. But what I what I feel like I've learned, is that unconditional love comes when I can face the truth, and so when, when I'm looking at what is really going on, it's like, I feel like unconditional love comes to support me and support the whole situation. And so it's the thing that kind of helped me move out of denial, into being able to hold, hold a bigger picture, a bigger context. Wow,

Kellee White:

I can see it's still very moving for you. Yeah,

James Van Praagh:

you're so sensitive. You're very, very sensitive person, yeah,

Kellee White:

you're the perfect one to have written this story, because you can hold that space for people. I bet you you end up having seminars for this kind of a situation, for deep healing, for people. You should, yeah, you really should. You you would have the capacity to hold this. It's a bad story. It's again, betrayal is huge. It's one of the big reasons people come to Earth. They're going to experience it. It's all about growth in in our soul, expanding and growing. And betrayal teaches us a lot about how we respond and how how it plays out.

James Van Praagh:

And Kelly, don't you agree that we we all learn, we all set up our lives before we come back those lessons. We did our curriculum and you souls connect and agree to certain circumstances in order for both of you to learn certain aspects. Yeah,

Kellee White:

so if you were going to give people some steps who have been in a betrayal situation, and would they would like some how to learn how to get to a forgiveness place. What would you what would you send on? What area? How would you go with that? I

Jessica Waite:

think that one of the things, and it's hard to talk about this, because you can't really do it at an intellectual level, but is that it's so with the shame of being betrayed, it's so easy to turn that on yourself. This is what I felt like I was doing. I should have known. How could I be so stupid? You know, all of those kinds of thoughts and so that does not help you. And it is like I would really just say it is not your fault. It is very easy to deceive people for a variety of reasons, especially these days with technology, like, there's so many things, like, some it's and so it's not your fault for having been deceived, and it's one of admitting that we've been deceived as one of the hardest things that we can do. And so I think I would just say, you know, be as gentle as you can, to understand you didn't do anything wrong, and that it's nothing about who you are or how you are, and that you can, you know you can recover from it, and you can, like, get your life back. And we have to trust each other, right? Like, I didn't heal from this alone. And so we, like, find finding something to trust, which might just be that you're going to be okay, like, to keep the faith, faith in yourself. Yeah. And then part of the gentleness too is, you know, get as much sleep as you can look. I can't tell you how much I slept and how tired and exhausted I was and and so then I had to be kind to like, not judging myself, that I was being lazy or something like that. But it takes, yeah, it takes rest. And

Kellee White:

I'm just curious, did a therapist ever diagnose him as a sociopath when they were talking to you?

Jessica Waite:

No, and I don't think that that would have been an accurate diagnosis for Sean, because he really did love and care for people, and he that that was one of the hard things off the bat for me, because he was so beloved. So he mentored people in his field, and he had so many strong friendships, and he he, he definitely didn't exhibit the tendencies of someone who doesn't care about other people. He really, I think he really did care. And I think. Like, it sounds strange to say, but I think he really did love me, and I think how much he loved me is why he couldn't show him the parts of himself that he hated to me, because he was too afraid that that he would lose his family. And I don't think he wanted that to happen. Yeah,

Kellee White:

well, you can have both positions. He could, I believe he absolutely loved you. I do believe that, after reading the book, I do believe that, and he also can have this other situation, totally, totally, that's more than one thing going

Jessica Waite:

absolutely Lots of things can be true at the same time, and that

James Van Praagh:

happens a lot. Kelly, yeah, a lot of people have different, like, different kind of different personalities, but they have different parts of themselves and and is it quite common that people keep things hidden, or live double lives, or triple lives even? Is that? Yeah, oh, it

Kellee White:

is possible. Yes, James, very much so. And at some point you talk about him having remorse, and especially when he passes, yeah,

Jessica Waite:

that that was a thing like one of the books that sort of jumped out at me. It told a story of someone who basically her husband betrayed her, and it was very similar, kind of there were little details that were exactly like my situation. But then the in that story, the husband basically died of remorse, and so I felt like, Could it be that, because Sean had a heart attack, he was only 47 he had just had a full physical and get been given a clean bill of health. And I wondered, like, like, what, what caused his heart, you know, to, you know, and that, that kind of thing. And so, was it like, yeah, and anyway. But you know, I would love to know from your point of view, when people die and they're not at their like, they're not at their most healthy, integrated, that best selves, because you had mentioned purgatory off the top, James and I ask some questions about Purgatory and my story. Like, what like do people do you think people hang around in some other level, trying to help the world of the living? Because that's what it seemed like was happening with me. But I don't, I don't know. Like, yeah,

James Van Praagh:

they do. They do. And, you know, every spirit is different, but he gets a lot going on. And you know, we see it from the human point of view. But you know, I believe that souls that we are all sold, but 30% of the souls here, 70% is outside the physical. So when he leaves, goes back to that space of the soul. And you know, the hard thing, of course, when they pass up Regret. Regret is a very difficult thing to live with and hurt and we hurt you and regret and resentment. But again, there might have been this mental condition that he had. You know, I think sometimes Jessica that souls come back for different reasons, sometimes to work with a mental body to perfect that mental body sometimes come back perfect the physical body, sometimes emotional body. And I do think that does happen. And I think they do stay around on a certain level to let the loved ones know that they're around, that they're not dead. And they will try every single way they possibly can to get a sign through, signal through, come through, dreams, come through. You know, different signs of birds or like the eagle, and different ways, even sometimes, they will project, in a way, into your mind, you like you're looking at someone. They go, wow, that looks just like Sean. It happens. It does happen that way. And I think that they're there helping manipulate that work that to happen they have, they tend to have, of course, those regrets, resentments. And I'm sure he was wants to say He's sorry he hurt you in the way he you know that, you know, yeah, yeah. And, but I do think I agree with Kelly. I think that you two had a sole agreement together. And

Kellee White:

I do think that totally James. And to even go a little further, when James asked you about your birthday was, and you said, September 16. That actually means the writer. So you really the contract with him would have been, look, we're going to go through some stuff here, and it's going to be deep. And you were like, Okay, let's sign up here. I mean, because when you met him, did you have any idea that you'd marry this man? Did you have any idea not her

Jessica Waite:

voice, not when I first met him, I liked him, and we had a strong friendship, but he had a crush on me first. And I'm very tall. I'm like six feet tall, and he was five foot seven. So there was a little bit of a height barrier, barrier in my mind. So so it was not obvious to me that we would become a couple, but, but as our friendship deepened and and then when we when we really did fall in love, we did talk about, I think it's like, in the Kurt Vonnegut language, he talks about, like a caras, I think there's the name of it. It's like a group of souls that travel through the world together. And so he so. That was what he thought we were part of that same group. And so that that kind of adds up with what you were saying about, you know, having the contract, and then James, when you were saying about the the seeing them that happened to me once at the funeral, and then it just happened to me again a couple of weeks ago, when I when my box of books was delivered, I went over to a family barbecue with all you know, Sean's brothers and and sister, and I was in the kitchen, and I was going to open the box to show them to everyone, and I saw Sean sitting in the lawn chair, but it was his brother, but it was Sean, like, it was like, so clearly him. And I just had this moment of like, what? So I think you know that that's exactly what you were talking about. And

James Van Praagh:

Jessica, your book, I'm just telling you right now I see it. You're going to win an award. It's going to be a golden label on the front of the cover. I think it's going to be a number of languages. I think it's going to help a lot of people. And I know you're going to write some more books. I just know that you're

Kellee White:

and I think you're going to do seminars all over the world with this.

Jessica Waite:

Thank you. I would love to do seminars. I think it would be

Kellee White:

I think they're a natural, natural healer, and you have a story, and even helping other people write their stories, do something like that,

Jessica Waite:

yeah, yeah. I would love to do that.

James Van Praagh:

One thing you said, Jessica, which I just have to repeat, because it's so important you said, and you know, you got to realize that, you know it's not your fault you have that you beat yourself up, and people should realize, don't do that to yourself. Be gentle with yourself. And that's so important, because people will often say, and Virgos, like with three Virgos here, verticals can be very self critical, but we always beat ourselves up, and we should never do that. I love that you talked about that because it's really important. It's an important

Kellee White:

message. You know, I also loved what you said about counseling, which I have to read this quote, because I thought it was so profound. You said counseling is like setting a broken bone. It doesn't take the pain away, but it puts things in place, so eventually they heal properly.

James Van Praagh:

Oh, it's beautiful. Wow. You're a natural. You're

Kellee White:

natural,

Unknown:

yeah,

Kellee White:

yeah. Oh my gosh,

James Van Praagh:

thank you. And you had a child together, yes, yeah. So

Jessica Waite:

we have one son. He's just about to turn 18 in a few days, and he was nine when his dad died. So he, you know, it's been a up. It's a rough road, I think, growing up with that kind of grief, but he's done really well, and he's a beautiful, wonderful human being. And I couldn't be prouder

James Van Praagh:

of our son. And do you share with him little things about his dad? Yeah,

Jessica Waite:

I do. And you know, as as as he's grown up, there's been sort of age appropriate moments for him, for us to talk about, you know, things that went on with his dad and so. So nothing that's in this book really was a surprise to him. He did read it in January, and I was so nervous. I was so nervous because I know I wouldn't have wanted to read these things about my parents as a teenager, or maybe ever, but he took the book. He went downstairs two weeks later. I mean, he'd come up in the meantime, two weeks later, he came into the kitchen and said, I'm halfway through the book, if I imagine it's about other people. It's very well paced and interesting. Yeah, I just laughed so much because he's a he plays Dungeons and Dragons, and he's a dungeon master, so he's very into, like, the storytelling in the world building. And so I appreciated that he could, you know, look at it from, from outside of it just being about us, but, but I think in the end, it has helped our relationship like, I think he sees me as a human being, which I don't know if I saw my parents as human beings. And

James Van Praagh:

cry, I'm gonna cry, yeah? And, you know, don't

Kellee White:

forget, he would have contracted you, both of you, as parents. Yeah.

James Van Praagh:

Jessica, a question I have for you. What about another relationship? Great question.

Jessica Waite:

Yeah, I have a sweetheart. He We met through online dating, but this is another funny, strange thing, and this isn't in the book at all. I was saying that body workers were, like, having so getting into it, it hits. And so I was, I went to someone for craniosacral therapy, and she said, did your husband die? And I'm like, Yes. And she's like, Well, do you have a boyfriend? And I'm like, Yes. And she said, your husband sent him to you. And like, what I had never, I had never thought of that in a million years. And so I went, William is the name of my boyfriend. And I went, I went to him and said, and he's, he's an engineer, and was atheist, and like, I thought he'd laugh near the building, but I'm like, so this person said this and and he said, that has crossed my mind. Yeah and, and I'm like, why? And he's like, because I know that he would want someone who loves you as much as he did, but he's also a very different person. Like, they're, they could not be more opposite in terms of personality. And so it's yeah, it's yeah that, I guess that would be another thing that I tell someone who's going through this is like, don't count yourself out for love. Do you know like you, you're lovable, you someone? Yeah, you can be loved and love other people. And

James Van Praagh:

just the really common, common, common thing that this the partner that passed over before, well, look for the best person they can to their partner on the earth. I've seen it the Kelly. You've heard very much of the times they want you to experience love, and they will do the but they can to do that for you. Yeah, wow,

Kellee White:

yeah. And then as you heal, he heals on the other side. Well,

Jessica Waite:

that Yeah, and that, that's the thing that was the most eye opening. And this is, you know, our our friend, how we met Peggy. She helped a good friend of mine declutter, and that friend came to help me Declutter. And so that's how we all connected with one another, and it was through that friend, her name's Liz, who came to my house. We spent three days she took all of these pornography filled computers out of my house to get their hard drives like we got rid of all of the these, like, all everything that was in the basement that was like, all the home handyman jobs, all the unfinished business. And when it was gone, I felt this whoosh of energy and, and I said to Liz, this was healing for Sean too. I feel like somehow we like, this was for sure for him, for and, and so that, yeah, that was, like, one of the most amazing like things. And I do write about it, but I don't know if I could convey fully, like, how much I felt like release and relief and freedom, not only for myself, but for the relationship,

Kellee White:

and for the record, James and I are very first guest what's Peggy Fitzsimmons talk about her declutter book, which is a great book everybody

James Van Praagh:

you know. I just got to say, as you're speaking and you're talking about this, and I just very, very emotional, and I want to say, you have courage. You have

Jessica Waite:

Thank you. I think, I think that that's the other thing. Like I heard someone say, it's Stephen Jenkinson. I don't know if you know him, but he's a he's a Canadian guy, but he has a PhD in, like, Divinity School from Harvard, and he's also was a physician who helped a lot of people transition. And so he's kind of was known as, like, the deaf guy for a long time in Canadian. Anyway, he said something that has stuck with me, which is that we succumb to courage so, so basically we fall into courage and and that is definitely what it feels like to me, that I just like I have no other choice, so I just kind of succumb. And then courage lifts me up to do the next thing, and, and, and so I guess that's part of why I think we all have that in us. You know, like we can all be courageous. We

Kellee White:

can't wait to hear how this book does I already know it's going to be a best seller. As James said, we both

James Van Praagh:

Yeah, the widow's guide to dead bastards, everybody. It'll be available when, at the end of July,

Jessica Waite:

it's Yeah, so it's available to preorder.

Kellee White:

So it's available to pre

James Van Praagh:

order. And thank you for being on our show. You really appreciate it and

Kellee White:

so admire you and your work.

Jessica Waite:

Thank you for inviting me. It's such a joy and an honor. Thank you for inviting me. It's such a joy and an honor to get to meet you. Thank

James Van Praagh:

you. Thanks everybody. Thank you. You.